Okay this contains some spoilers for the Romance subplot of Disney’s Frozen… Which can I just say I love that Romance took a back seat for once?
Also I should preface this by saying that Frozen is the best Disney movie in probably a Decade so go see it!!!
Now my rant
I have a few ‘Cardinal…
1. If you think Disney made Hans evil as a way of resolving a love triangle, you completely missed the point. Hans’ good guy personality was a total fabrication from the beginning. He constructed it specifically to make himself more appealing to others, particularly Anna. He first appears as this completely generic nice, charming Disney prince, but after meeting Anna he starts to take on personality traits similar to her own in an attempt to make her believe they’re a perfect match. Also notice how quickly he turns on a dime after he makes the reveal of his true nature and closes the door where Anna is? And how convincing and seemingly sincere his grief is? If you took out the reveal scene and skipped straight on to him telling of Anna’s “death”, you would not suspect that you’d missed a thing, believing Hans to still be the good man you’d thought he was and merely mistakenly thinking that Anna had died. That’s how good he is at playing this role. He seems too good to be true, but he is in fact an evil, self centered sociopath. And there is truth to sociopaths being like that in real life.
2. Not every movie NEEDS a villain…true, but sometimes a villain in a story where he’s not even the main conflict doesn’t hurt things either. It worked for Gaston.
1. Sorry but you’re just making excuses for poor writing… And this isn’t just something Disney is guilty off, it’s a new trend in Romance writing, particularly romance catered to young adults and teens… You create a love triangle but don’t have the skill to ACTUALLY see it through, so you take the easy way out and force the audience into choosing one side
Also your use of the word Sociopath is improper… A sociopath is a person who lacks empathy, not the Serial Killer idea the general population tends to believe
They can still be in loving relationships, they just can’t get into the mind of their partner
1. The love triangle was barely a thing in the movie, though. Heck, there wasn’t even a love triangle: Hans and Kristoff were never in the same scene together and Hans never loved Anna from the start. You think the purpose of making Hans a villain was to make the audience accept Kristoff as Anna’s love? That wasn’t even the central relationship of the movie: it was the bond between the sisters. And the sacrificial act of true love for one sister from another was only possible because Hans was the bad guy. It looks to me that you’re the one making excuses. You think Disney’s decision to “make Hans evil” was all about the so-called love triangle rather than accept that Hans is, and always was, a villain. This is not a case of Derailing Love Interests here.
And Hans didn’t lack empathy?
You’re using Sociopath as an excuse for why he was willing to kill Anna and Elsa… It doesn’t fit… Hell that word gets thrown around so much its ridiculous… And I don’t just mean in regards to Hans… People just like to label killers sociopathic without really thinking about it
If Hans is anything, the end of the movie Hans, he’s Opportunistic… And it’d be a little more believable if he just wanted to marry Anna for the Kingdom, but being murderous?
I’d totally agree with you that the central relationship was Anna and Elsa which is why I still love the movie, but that has nothing to do with the fact that there is a romance subplot in which Anna has feelings for two men… She has feelings for Hans (whether or not they’re reciprocated) and she has feelings for Kris… That is a LOVE TRIANGLE… They bring it up multiple times… Hell there is a song about it
But look… You think I’m crazy for not seeing that Hans is evil… But I’m not the only person… I’m not saying that makes me right, honest :)
But maybe it says something about the writing that we are having this debate
He was opportunistic enough to resort to murder. And letting the girl he pretended to give a damn about freeze to death. That shows he has absolutely zero concern for the lives and feelings of others as long as he gets what he’d been craving. Yeah, he’s a sociopath.
And that’s not even the proper definition of a love triangle. A true love triangle is one where each of the three people are in love with someone, and it clashes with the desires of each of them. Not just “one girl or boy must choose between these two”. The Team Edward VS Team Jacob thing has become as big a stereotype as sociopaths being Serial Killers.
The writing was too good? Or the writing was too lacking in this area? Who knows?
Its funny you bring up Edward and Jacob… As I see what Disney did to be the exact same stunt Meyers pulled with Jacobs Face-Heel turn in Eclipse…
But you don’t so *Shrug*
In all complete honesty I would’ve liked the movie more if there just hadn’t been romance at all… Just focused on Anna and Elsa
I do give a lot of praise to the fact that it was not True Love’s kiss that broke the curse
Jacob was never using Bella for an evil plan, though.
I dunno: I think the handsome prince who Anna fell in love with at first sight and who seemingly returned the feelings actually being the bad guy was a good lesson about how love at first sight isn’t always what it seems and girls should not fall for guys until they’ve thoroughly looked past their covers. ‘Cause that is something that has led to bad marriages or misfortunes befalling women in real life. Also I liked how Anna and Kristoff ended up a couple but not engaged at the end like Tiana/Naveen, Rapunzel/Euguene, and Felix/Calhoon before them, because that’s also more realistic and shows how the romance took a backseat to the tale of the familial love between the two sisters.
Or, you know… More often it just leads to a relationship that doesn’t last… I’ve never said in any of my posts I wanted Hans and Anna together. I knew from the get go they were pairing Anna with Kris
My issue with Kris and Anna is that they fell in love in still an insanely fast amount of time… And were both convinced it was true love… Sure it was a little longer than the time Anna had spent with Hans, but it was still like 36 hours tops which isn’t really saying much
Also I think it’s a harmful lesson in one specific (and personal) way… If you look at a lot of adult RomComs, it has become a trend that the Clean-Cut Pretty Boy (prince charming type) that the main girl starts out with is actually a toolbag and she falls for an edgier guy… I have nothing against edgy guys… But clean-cut guys aren’t all jerks/evil and I’m sick of seeing the type of guy I’m attracted to portrayed that way
This however is really not something to debate me on, because like I said it’s a personal thing and you’ll never get me to change my mind on what I personally see happening in movies
What happens “more often” doesn’t change that the other thing does happen and has happened, especially after marriage, when the women see their lover’s true colors. “First loves don’t always work out” is a lesson that has been taught elsewhere already. And I’m sure just about everyone thought this would end up like “Enchanted”: the girl and a prince fall in love at first sight and get engaged after just meeting, the girl realizes it isn’t true love and falls for someone else, while the prince ends up with Idina Menzel’s character. That the prince was actually a heartless cad was a welcome twist.
That’s why I like it that they ended up in the “dating” phase by the end of the film but nothing more serious than that. And I don’t recall either of them thinking it was true love: that was just the trolls’ thinking. The only true love in the movie was between Anna and Elsa.
Well It would’ve been pretty gag worthy if Hans and Elsa got together, that’s for sure… But since I never argued for that it’s kind of moot
And there’s a difference between marriages not working out and the guy being evil… I don’t think Disney needs to warn little girls about serial killers… There’s a such thing as innocence of youth
As for Anna and Kris, they both rush to each other to kiss because they think it will be True Loves Kiss
It’s not about serial killers! It’s about manipulative, abusive romantic partners who can fool girls with superficial charm but in truth don’t really love them and are just using them for their own wants and pleasures. They could do nothing illegal and they’d still be a danger to the women they’re with. Hans only really tried to kill one person in the whole film, and that was Elsa. He was not a serial killer at all, he was just a dick. And that was the message: sometimes the fairy tale prince is really a dick. It’s been demonstrated in other stories, but I think this is the first time Disney has done it.
Even then, it’s pretty one-sided on Kristoff’s part. Anna isn’t really sure of anything anymore at that point, she’s just desperate for something, anything to save her. But then when she sees her sister is in trouble, she sacrifices that chance at salvation to save her instead. And that was the true love. Kristoff was merely a fake-out.
This is getting ridiculous… Anna totally thought Kris was her true love after her conversation with Olaf
And I disagree wholeheartedly about the message the movie sends with Hans.
But we are never going to agree so it’s kind of pointless to keep bickering ^^”
Hans had just betrayed her, and the trolls did try to set her up with Kristoff earlier. In the state she was in, she was very easily willing to believe in what Olaf was saying. And he was right in that Kristoff did really love her, but it wasn’t the “true love” that was needed to save the day either.
Where we disagree is that you seem to think Hans being the bad guy was purely a “shipping” based decision, while I think it had greater significance than that. Maybe you just have to give it time and wait for the filmmakers’ commentary on the matter.
Actually in my original post I said it was more than just a shipping based decision… It was also inserting drama/a villain where one wasn’t necessary
But I don’t need time… My mind won’t change because it effects me how it effects me
So please don’t patronize me